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Neo
Posted: Monday, September 14, 2020 11:32:13 AM
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Below is one of the most shameless efforts of setting a guest up I've come across - they even roped in the weather woman to take a swipeEh? No huge surprise from Morgan, but so disappointing from Suzanna Reid. I used to really like her (not just because she's eye candy eitherAngel, but the disrespect she showed to Piers Corbyn was quite something. The four of them basically lined up to bully their elderly guest on national T.V. (after he was roughed up by the police for daring to protest current restrictions). Anyone else think that these mainstream bullies are corporate shills? You don't have to agree with Mr. Corbyn's views to see that he was treated with disdain; there were making concerted efforts to portray him as a loony, a crackpot, not to be listened to (Like Dr. Shillary, reading from his script)

The one good thing about this is that even on their own site (with the possibility of shadow banning being in effect) there are more thumbs down than up. People are seeing through mainstream propaganda more and more these days. Fair play to Piers Corbyn for keeping his cool and not taking the bait, making their pathetic behaviour all the more opaque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elf6h_K4JH0

There is no spoon.
jim
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2020 10:38:11 PM

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They just can't stop interrupting him, can they? With ridiculous statements like "it's a fact that 800000 people have died from COVID-19." Does Piers Morgan have a clue what a "fact" actually is??? And then they all got so furious with him - the more points he made, the angrier they got. It reminded me a lot of the materialist physicists who, when presented with real evidence of anything contrary to their cherished position, resort to name calling. Pathetic.
jim
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2020 11:33:42 PM

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Some of this nonsense is capture well in a couple charts. First, take a look at the chart in this one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/

Seems rather dramatic, right? But then, look at the scale - the spike in excess deaths is about 10000 against 55000, or 18%. But it sure doesn't look like an 18% spike, does it. That's call misleading statistics and charts. The conclusion is twofold:

1. Something is going on
2. It isn't as apocalyptic as the mainstream media and government would have you believe. It's 18%

Now look at this chart:



Through March, as the entire world locked down, there was barely a blip on the data. Admittedly, this is just one state, but it isn't that different in most places in the US, other than NYC. It isn't until 3 months later when the second wave hit that we see anything beyond the excess death increase that happened in the winter of 2017. And then, because this graph is full scale, it is very easy to see that 18% anomaly. So yeah, something is causing more deaths that usual, mostly in the elderly and those with serious medical issues. But does it warrant the level of panic, fear, lockdown, economic catastrophe, social isolation, emotional impact to children, etc. Sorry, I just don't see it.
Jon D
Posted: Friday, September 25, 2020 12:54:10 AM
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jim wrote:
Does Piers Morgan have a clue what a "fact" actually is???


Apparently they are dictating what "fact" is lately. I'm sure you've noticed the "Fact Checkers". Imagine that, a new type of authority in which you get to dictate for others what is fact or not. We no longer get to determine ourselves if something is true, at least on a public platform.

This concept should be stopped now, it violates fundamental rights of free will and determination.
jdlaw
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:59:01 PM

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Look I am sorry guys. You are all good online TUS friends of mind that I respect, but your willingness to turn away from all science just want to postulate about mass media hypnosis, then let's just say it —yes we are all subject to mass media mind manipulation.

But you are all taking it is an extra level in here on this one. f you want to throw all science in the garbage for your conspiracy theories, then just throw away REALITY altogether.

As for me, I know reality is a simulation, but while I am in it, this is the only reality I've got. So I'm making the best of it.

Science/Math tells us that for a good approximation:

Excess Deaths 2020 = Deaths 2020 - Average Deaths 2015-19

Of course we are not done with 2020 yet, so similarly you can look at specific time periods within those years.

Excess Deaths March-August 2020 = Deaths March-August 2020 - Average Deaths March-August 2015-19

Similar to Jim's chart above, we have organizations that track death in most of these countries. I am going to use the USA. It is widely accepted here and everywhere in the world that the death rates are spiking (during this whatever you want to call it - even if you do not believe in the pandemic).

So, now either your reality is lying to you, or you guys are just flat making $#!+ up.

The USA has suffered some 260,000 excess deaths in March-August 2020 than compared to deaths on average March-August for 2015-2019. And this is even though only 169,000 deaths occurred in people who tested positive for COVID-19 (coronavirus). (source CDC)

If you do not believe in the virus, then what you really need to be saying is that the CDC and math and science are all lying to you. The statistics say that people are dying at higher rates due to something. So, if you are going to go with conspiracy theory, please stop with the namby-pamby corporate takeover crap. Let's at least talk about alien take over or something interesting.


"Bot"-tee-licious
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2020 6:09:43 AM
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Wow, jdlaw, glad you had the courage to speak your mind. I absolutely and completely understand the way you feel since I feel the same way about individuals underlying skepticism of authority, scientists, medical expertise, and the mainstream media regarding COVID-19.

Granted, for a lot of us, the virus is intangible and not very concrete. I think individuals are reluctant to believe in things they have not experienced for themselves. For example, for a long time, I did not take influenza seriously and did not feel it necessary to get vaccinated against it. I did not think people like myself, who are generally fit and healthy needed it. Then in December 2017, my outlook completely changed after I contracted the ‘Aussie’ flu and ended up hospitalized. I’ve now gone from a skeptic to a convert, and why I will always get my flu jab, as well, as not trivializing the gravity of any flu-type illnesses, COVID-19 included.

Although the data/statistics are not complete and, at times, misleading, it still provides us with a crucial part of the picture and also lets us know, for sure, that COVID-19 is far deadlier than the flu.

jim
Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2020 2:05:52 PM

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Not denying any science. In fact I think the media makes as much of a mess of science as conspiracy theorists do. Case in point - here in the US, a couple months ago the media was making a huge deal out of aerosolized Covid, with simulations of slip stream scenarios and all sorts of scary conclusions. None of it was based on a single real experiment. All they showed was that fluid dynamics works exactly the way science says it works. Real science would have done experiments based on viral load and real life scenarios. To my knowledge, there have still been no such experiments - everything else is simply conclusion by inference.

I fully believe that there is a nasty virus out there and that it has killed much more efficiently than the flu. Then again, SARs, MERS, and Ebola are even more efficient, right? So it can't just be about the deadliness of a pathogen. There are many more factors to consider.

I'm trying to put it in perspective and only have two points in this thread...

1. Piers Morgan and those on the panel are NOT scientists, but they acted like know-it-all jackals in that interview, attacking the interviewee unprofessionally.

2. It's all about the numbers and risk management. 200,000 is a lot of deaths. But over 2.8 million people die in the US each year, give or take. So, if it ends up being that excess deaths represent a 10% bump in US mortality (and, predominately among people with health problems) in 2020, does that warrant the level of response that the government has imposed? There is nothing in this question about facts, right or wrong, it is merely opinion. Factor in the loss of income, mental health, and possible physical health due to side effects of lockdown that impact the young and healthy. Consider that Sweden has the same mortality rate as the US without lockdown or mask enforcement. Or that Japan had a ridiculously low mortality without lockdown, but with voluntary mask usage.

Thought experiment - if a person in their 30s has a choice between accepting a .01% mortality risk or reducing that risk to .005% but completely losing their livelihood, what would they pick? Can't speak for everyone, but for me, I take more than that level of risk when I decide to take a job that requires me to drive on the freeway rather than find something of lesser pay where I can work from home and avoid the risk of dying in a car accident. I know a number of 20 and 30-somethings who would have preferred to keep their jobs, but they didn't get a choice - instead the government imposed drastic lockdown measures. Why? Because they are really trying to flatten the curve (which makes no sense if you have sufficient medical facilities), or save a few lives? Or is because they are worried about their place in history if they pick wrong?
jdlaw
Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:23:05 PM

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jim wrote:
Not denying any science ... SARs, MERS, and Ebola are even more efficient, right? So it can't just be about the deadliness of a pathogen ...Piers Morgan ... Japan had a ridiculously low mortality without lockdown, but with voluntary mask usage ...Thought experiment


Jim,

I know we usually differ little in how we see many things (I bought your first book when it first came out and you have influenced my thought processes about everything). But, at the beginning of this pandemic discussion back in February and March, I think we differed greatly.

One thing we both agree on (always) is that whatever is happening, it has everything to do with the programmed universe and what it (She) is going to present to us in each of our own little RLLs.

Piers Morgan has never been a "journalist" - like so many others, he is a "sensationalist." But Piers Corbyn has no science to stand on whatsoever and he deserved everything he got (sorry Neo). He is the one who agreed to go on that show.

I think there could have been nationally mandated protocols in the US early on that would have worked (short of "lockdown") and countries that mandated inter alia (among other things) mask wearing —have shown that such protocols could have worked.

Trump (though I hate to give him any credit or blame he so much craves) had no choice but to do exactly what he did (lie about it). This is because what he has built into the media. His followers would have revolted if he would have made any such national mandates. Frankly his opponents would have also distrusted anything from him simply because of who he is (lying, debt leveraging, negative net worth, con man).

Normally these things affect third world countries worse because they do not have anyone with enough political trust to get a nation to follow them. The USA used to have this kind of political will (even if you differ on politics, you do not differ on National security). But since Trump, I fear we may never have it again. The level of distrust has sky rocketed.

I think your thought experiment is right on the mark. If this would have been presented this way in the beginning, i.e. told the American people —either you states are going to agree to mandate masks, enforce crowd limits, set higher sanitizing requirements for all public and business spaces —or we will have to enforce an extended lockdown.

Our government simply did not have a large enough "trust account" when the Trump administration fired the entire pandemic response team in the months immediately leading up to this.
jim
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:48:06 AM

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Agree on all points, jdlaw. Thanks for sharing. To be honest, I know nothing about Piers Corbyn so I may have given him more slack than deserved. I just reacted to the bullying because I've seen it so many times by materialists like Michael Shermer and James Randi.
Neo
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 10:30:26 AM
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Only getting back to this (my) thread now, it got quite lively for a thread on here. Thanks, Jim for both watching the video and replyingApplause, thus keeping things rolling. I'll be replying here in the main to jdlaw's input; fair play for saying your part jd (& no need to apologise to me, it's honest debate), but I disagree with you on a number of points.

Quote:
But you are all taking it is an extra level in here on this one. f you want to throw all science in the garbage for your conspiracy theories, then just throw away REALITY altogether.


Science or propaganda? Or science manipulated by propaganda? Waters are being muddied, deliberately or otherwise. For example, it was quoted by many during the Summer that Kary Mullis, the inventor of the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test, currently being used to detect COVID-19, had stated that his test was unsuitable for disease detection. Yet now we have the aforementioned fact-checkers on the scene stating otherwise.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pcr-idUSKBN24420X

Who do you believe? What vested interests are behind these fact-checkers,(Good post Jon DApplause ) who are so kindly saving us the trouble of checking things out for ourselves. I mean with all this fear-based propaganda it's nice to know that there are some things which we need not concern ourselves over, they've got it covered.Think It can all be very confusing. But maybe that's the point.

I could go on about this at length about this but things might get convoluted that way. I'll end this post with this general comment: Does it not alarm you guys that hosts of well respected doctors who disagree with the "official" narrative are being censored across the world? We're not so much talking about science here, but narrative, and who controls it.

https://truthcomestolight.com/2020/10/18/world-doctors-alliance-open-letter-to-the-uk-government-governments-of-the-world-and-the-citizens-of-the-world/

There is no spoon.
Jon D
Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 2:12:20 AM
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I'm seeing a disturbing trend recently and I'm afraid it's not getting enough attention due to vision being clouded by politics. The internet we all got to know so well, the open information and discussion, seems to be on it's last leg. All of the attention is now conglomerated into social media mega platforms and there they are starting to not only dictate what is "fact", but also punish those who go against it.

Is it so hard to understand the danger in that? If someone chooses to read an article on an off-shoot conspiracy website about the virus being a hoax or whatever topic it may be, they have a right to read it, they have a right to believe it, and they have a right to share it whether we agree with them or not. Once this becomes punishable, there becomes an irrevocable chain reaction of suppression that paves the way for a very dangerous future ahead.

I am not sure what's going on recently, but I find it both intriguing and alarming. In America at least, I feel safe saying the topic of the pandemic and the election go hand in hand. I have friends I know very well on both sides of the spectrum(love Donald Trump/hate Donald Trump. Believe the pandemic is planned/believe it's natural and the lockdown is good). I have friends who speak out one way because their significant other wouldn't stay with them if they disagreed. What I'm seeing, it's borderline madness. Never have I seen the thoughts of those around me so completely inundated with the same topic. Both sides of the spectrum say the exact same thing and they both say it with sincerity - "this is the most important election of our lifetime". My point in this paragraph is to outline the effect the "new" internet has on people's brains.

jdlaw
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2020 7:40:44 PM

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Neo wrote:
Does it not alarm you guys that hosts of well respected doctors who disagree with the "official" narrative are being censored across the world? We're not so much talking about science here, but narrative, and who controls it.


Neo, it is almost as if you do not actually believe in the programmed nature of the universe.

I do not indulge myself in the deep state conspiracy theories of David Icke ... because ... wait for it ... wait for it ... they are all 100% true ―for him.

But I don't care. So now let me explain.

My belief about what is going on here sort of comes in two parts:

1 - My RLL that I live in ―is programmed
2 - Add to 1 ―programmed by some benevolent entity.

1 is kind of a given for me now. And my favorite quote is from the Author of this forum, Jim Elvidge

"When you look into the nature of reality with an open mind, yet armed with the tools of math and hard science (such as quantum mechanics and cosmology), it is hard not to arrive at the conclusion that a programmatic mechanism is behind the workings of the universe. The evidence includes the discrete nature of reality, the inevitable direction of virtual reality, the finely-tuned universe, and the fact that all known scientific and metaphysical anomalies are only explained by such a model."

2 - I learned from another friend of mine, Lincoln Canon, who is the Author of the "New God Argument"
THE NEW GOD ARGUMENT ("TNGA")

If I can sum TNGA in once sentence, it goes like this:

If the RLL was not programmed by a beneficent entity holding us together (by whatever form - perhaps even just the universe itself) mankind would most likely have already destroyed themselves long ago.


But back to what this has to do with refusing to buy into these deep state conspiracies of David Icke. It is because I already know that anyone delving deeply enough to find "evidence" of a conspiracy, will ultimately find exactly what they want to find. It is just like Neo in the Matrix movie. Your world is programmed, so if you ever dig deep enough, you are always going to find something that the RLL can present to force it to wrap all back in on itself. It is just one of the those fundamentals of our universe IMO.

So as for Icke, he may be very entertaining, but I choose to stay in my blissful ignorance. The "Truth" that is out there, does not always have to be so "diabolical."

Why does it all have to be so dark and unholy? Maybe all this adversity we meet in the RLL is still for our good. If it is not, then for me all hope is already lost. Since I personally would rather serve ice cubes to the tormented souls in Hell than ever exercise my cool dominion over any soul in Heaven, I will continue to let my own little light shine. Icke can continue to shine his light on whatever he needs to shine it on ... and I have a different light to shine on me.
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