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which emerged first Options
sambuca
Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:56:06 AM
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d'oh! i wonder which emerged first the conscious mind or the subconscious mindAnxious
jdlaw
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:12:09 AM

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Would you rather be or a duck?
sambuca
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:13:31 AM
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that's funny--like it--Not talking
jdlaw
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:19:56 PM

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You must remember that I do subscribe whole heartedly to the programmed reality construct. Certainly there is a lot of speculation about who or what is running this program and how it all actually works, but there is no doubt in my mind what-so-ever that all of this is a type of simulation. So, if this is a non-local projected reality, then even your conscious mind is a simulated simulation (the dream within a dream).

Here is a short translation of the Cartesian (Rene DesCartes') postulate on the matter:

Is anything really known to be true. Let us look outside of our windows on to the street below. And if you have a house with windows and there are people below, to the people we see passing by on the street, in the minds of those other persons who have no choice but to be a part of our extension now that we have looked at them, whether deceived or not; all of their extensions; they have no choice but to be deprived of the simple "I think, therefore I am" proposition, but rather are left with a "We think therefore we are" proposition, because we perceive them and they have no choice in that. And since truth exists for us, then truth exists for them as well. In every instance and for each of those persons walking down on the street, truth is truth.

And now returning to our quest we are engaged, which is an attempt to decide if we just came to be or if there was a creator, it doesn't matter whether or not there is a God at this point except that if there is a God, we can rule out that God is a deceiver, at least as to this world. It may have seemed just a game to us; that we even considered this process or thought that we could cast out error and deceit. But the ultimate goal in this discourse is of course to arrive at whether or not God exists. What then was the purpose of the above exercise in casting out error? The answer: it was simply to prove to ourselves in our status of doubt that we still do have the power to cast our error whenever it is incontrovertibly recognized. We can now use that power to move on to the bigger questions.

We can look out our windows and indeed we can see the people down on the street, but as we said above, all corporeal things, even down to our very own physical existence is nothing but extension. What a step it would be to further declare absolutely that those extensions that we view are actually other souls that do also exist. Those people seem real to us, but they could also be a part of a god's deception. It could all be an act in play - a play designed to entertain our souls for some purpose, but to exactly what purpose we know not.

But comfort can be found in the fact that we can prove to ourselves that at least one other true spirit in the universe outside ourselves does exist and the proof of that is that we did not know any truths as babes; that is, we had to be taught. Someone or something had to teach us through our extensions. Then once we learned, i.e. the concept within itself, no longer required of our extensions in order to be true and without deception, we knew we were not alone and are not deceived in this, for we have cast out the error.

Now we know for sure that at least one being outside ourselves exists because we have been taught one way or another, God or Man, but at least one of the two remaining alternatives is now true. Both cannot be false, we have cast out the idea that all could be false. But both could yet be shown to be true. But as mankind can endeavor to obtain by degrees a more intimate and familiar knowledge of self and his affections, the knowledge of the opportunity for true companionship is no small thing when for many people, the possibility of isolation is truly one of the most feared of fears. It is no small thing therefore, to contemplate whether any being outside ourselves truly exists.
sambuca
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:26:22 AM
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thanx jd--a lot to Think about and i did--do u feel we r programmed by a super intelligent infallible entity or more than one eg. members of an advanced civilization and r we and the universe some sort of controlled experiment and anything is possible Anxious
jdlaw
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 9:48:11 PM

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Well now you ask me another hard question, so I guess I'm supposed to act like I know what I'm talking about. I'm am not the most adept at this, but I have "in times and seasons" taken a "walk upon the way" and here is what the Programmer(s) might say.

"I guess we are torn by this question you seek. It all goes back to the original query, "which came first?" The making of this world is but one part in the story of the creation for there have been other worlds formed by me. And the substance of the world existed for all time also from the very beginning. For time is only measured by players. Everything is as one day me. If those players were to obtain the same glory as I and for me to not be alone, the player was to be created in my image; then it follows that you are to one day yourself become the programmer."


sambuca
Posted: Monday, October 6, 2008 8:15:56 AM
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ok--but i think programmed existence provides too easy an explanation for everything -i sort of feel inclined to think that this universe may have come about as a "lab" accident or experiment and the emergence of life throughout was not the ultimate reason for the universe and events happen by random chance----let me ask another hard one----what do u think happens to our minds--[conscious and subconscious]--after our physical bodies die--do our lifetime of thoughts generated by the brain using electrochemical processes exist on their own separate from the body and continue after death although at a status quo in a domain of their own?
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