In case you caught my comments in the concurrent topic thread in the open category “Think of a Number,” you can now tell that I really think this topic belongs in the AI Department here at the “University of The Universe Solved.”

(Just a reminder that Neo got this all started with the link to the French Scientists who were observing the specific brain activities related to number observation)

I think those French scientists are observing, but still not differentiating between the “seeing” of numbers and the actual understanding, or fathoming the “counting” of numbers – or in other words, they are observing the same types of behaviors we see in the illustrated in John Searle’s the Chinese Room ... The hypothetical room where you put an English Speaking person given a large encyclopedia of various compilations of chinese characters including a list of proper responses. With two slots in the door to the room, a Chinese speaking individual writes down input in chinese and feeds it into one slot. The person inside the room simply takes the slip, looks up the proper response, copies it onto the back of the slip, and passes it out the other slot.




To the Chinese person on the outside, it looks like the person inside the room knows and understands what is being slipped to him through the slot. (Turing Test)

When a computer or scientific calculator accepts input and returns correct output, it has no actual understanding of the existence of an actual quantity of things.

When a brain scan reveals certain “number tuned” neurons, we may be finally arriving closer to what I would say is at the heart of volition (Searle called it “intentionality”).

The most basic “counting” (of a 3, 4 or maybe 5 things) may actually belong at the forefront of mankind beginning to actually understand the underpinnings of volition.

I think we constantly underestimate animals. The same way we overestimate our importance in the universe. I have read about parakeets with a vocabulary of 500 words, mourning behaviors, complex social patterns, and problem solving among a wide variety of species. The following article has a bit to say about counting, but I couldn't find a source study.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20040112/ai_n11438290/

Of course Dembski is more associated with "intelligent design" which in my opinion has very little to do with the "embodied cognitive sciences" and a lot mere to do with the political religious right wing's movement to get prayer back into public schools.

Despite strong criticisms of Debmski and his lack of any peer reviewed publications, his support of "intelligent design" theories and observations of "causation" would also support the logical existence of a purposeful (programmed) reality. To me his observations are spot on - his insistence on relating it to the bible, however, is quite a bit more sketchy.

It's the "faith of our fathers. The idea that we were created -- not here by happen stance. "Deity" "Supernatural"

In this Forum, it is the idea that God is the Programmer.

Found a new modern apocryphal book, I think from the 1940s called "Urantia"

Here's what wiki says of the book's origins.

To the religious faint of heart, do not bother. But Stendec has raised the "God" question in here before. Is God the Programmer? Is the Programmer benevolent? Anthropomorphic?

Sorry, JD

I did read your post yesterday, but have been researching and became distracted.

Hmm, even I don;t know for sure whether I am really here (or there, for that matter!)

There are some interesting ideas in the book you mention, "Urantia". But it is kindof hard to follow, and there is a LOT wordage in it!

Then there's the "eternal loop" question -- if the Programmers / God created us, then who created the programmers? Such a causal infinity could be eradicated by thinking of time as a loop / hologram, with our limited lifespans being so small as to not "notice" the loop.

Enlightened or enquiring minds such as Jim's and ours, do however notcie certain 'anomalies', and this leads us to further enquiries....

By the way, what type of research? Anything related?