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Did anyone catch tonight's BBC Horizon programme? Options
stendec
Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:03:46 PM

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It was a fascinating insight into some of the latest experiments about the human mind, and the concept of what self-awaress realy is
Neo
Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:02:36 PM
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Saw that it was on but I was in my brother's house and he was watching Liverpool play. I suspect that I would have had a hard time talking him round in that scenario. Might check it out on youtube though.

There is no spoon.
jim
Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2009 1:11:55 PM

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So I read an article recently that implied that chimps become less self aware at a certain age. The speculation was that it was somehow an evolutionary characteristic that helped prevent them from obsessing over their own mortality as they aged. Of course, it is all speculation and the researchers who did the study have no idea whether or not the level of consciousness really changes, if thoughts of mortality really occur at any age, or if there is anything at all evolutionary about it.

Still, it brings me back to an age old question, which I don't think has ever been posed to the forum. And that is this...

Is consciousness a continuum or does it start at (and due to, although that is really a separate question) a certain level of brain complexity?

Setting aside for the moment any discussion about the definition of consciousness, what I really mean is "self aware"-ness.

So, is something with half my level of brain complexity and function half as self aware, half as conscious? How about something with 1% of that brain function. 1% as conscious, but nonetheless, still self aware? Is there a point at which there just isn't enough brain function to have consciousness, even thought that entity is certainly alive and making decisions.

For me, I believe in a continuum of consciousness, but it is probably only infused by a "conscious" decision of the programmers or the players. So there may very well be insects with consciousness, because that is what the "soul" wants to experience. There may also be autonomous humans, not unlike Agent Smith. This all fits with programmed reality, but not so much with traditional science.

Any thoughts?
spearshaker
Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2009 9:05:50 PM

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I have an opinion based on years of intimate association with dogs, cats, and even a bird (crippled blackbird, 11 years). It's of course only a personal opinion, but it eventually has come to seem almost self-evident to me.

It's that these particular creatures (at least), cats especially, seem gradually to develop a keen awareness of social situations that seems oftentimes equal to my own! Their ability to do abstract thinking is limited, but this social consciousness, it seems to me, reflects their self-awareness directly.

I find myself being exceedingly courteous to them without giving it much thought, as a consequence. In other words, this is an opinion that formed unconsciously on my part, based on the "data." So I tentatively view self-awareness as "quantized" in some sense, and distinct from abstract reasoning.
sambuca
Posted: Friday, November 6, 2009 9:20:46 AM
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aha-conciousness--what a great concept--saw the show--excellent---i have spent many years past working with animals first as a veterinary asst. and also at the ny zoological society [bronx zoo] as animal caretaker and have been present and participated in several psycholigical experiments and testing of different species of mammals-birds and reptiles and had previously always had the belief that other living creatures deserved more credit than we self centered humans gave them--in fact if given the opportunity i am convinced i can teach a chimp or gorilla to play a modified piano and eventually improvise musical thoughts on it's own!--i remember from past schooling that microbial life that showed a response to light had a self awareness and therefore some form of consciousness--for my own purposes i feel that the cosmos [universes] is a collective consciousness that is distributed throughout all that exists including what we "think" is non living matter--the familiar quote of descartes "i think, therefore i am" should perhaps read "i think, therefore i think i am"--conciousness as a collective concept is probably as complicated or more so than the cosmos is and probably holds clues and evidence of the origins of the forces of creation---also --what about the sub-concious--this is really peculiar --for instance--we go into a sleep state on a daily basis and eventually we go into a dream state [rem] and while in a dream state we sometimes are very aware we are in a dream and appreciate the circumstances whatever they may be and then what happens if we fall asleep in the dream and begin dreaming within our dream in another sleep state and realize we are dreaming again--who is who in this meandering potpurri of subconcious entities--how deep can this go i wonder--are dreams squared as evidence of some subconscious leakage from parallel universes --Think
stendec
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:37:40 PM

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I've always been fascinated by concept of consciousness (something I thought of as "What makes Me, me, and Someone Else, someone else", when I was too young to know the word consciousness).
Sambuca, you raise some very interesting issues about the possibility of a collective consciousness in the universe(s). I'll come back to this discussion after some sleep (whatever sleep is!)
sambuca
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 1:01:21 PM
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pretty funny-----s
jim
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:18:48 AM

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All this consciousness discussion got me to post another set of polls: http://www.theuniversesolved.com/polls_consciousness.htm

Tell us what you think!

Is consciousness an artifact of brain function?
Do we have free will?
Who has consciousness and who doesn't?
Is the Earth Conscious?
Is a rock?
stendec
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:34:00 PM

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Came across this interesting article:
"Bigger Not Necessarily Better, When It Comes to Brains"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091117124009.htm
stendec
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:36:00 PM

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Also, this related article:
"The cat is out of the bag: corticalsimulations with 10^9 neurons, 10^13synapses"
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/28842.wss
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