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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/21/2008 Posts: 40 Points: 120 Location: Georgia/USA
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This programmed reality that I read about here...is this essentially saying that whatever we think or feel etc. is not something that originates with ourselves? We have been programmed to think and feel and imagine by something else? What do you suppose is the reasoning behind that? Is it for control? Why would something need to control us? I don't think for the most part that the human race is so smart (intelligent)that it needs to be controlled; there's probably a better way to word that but I think you know what I mean. I think if we were collectively so smart that if there is some kind of higher power that fears our knowing too much then perhaps it would try to control us with this programmed reality (how would they achieve that I wonder?). I guess what I am leading up to however is what makes you think we are in a programmed reality?
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/30/2009 Posts: 448 Points: 1,347 Location: N.Lewisburg,OH,US
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You'll have to excuse me, for a couple of reasons. First, I'm not the brightest bulb, secondly, I'm a bit tipsy right now. The idea of this programmed reality is what I think of as a 'general theory', within this general theory there are all sorts of 'specific theories'. If I could try to explain, many years ago I became interested in this technology and I thought I might want to learn how it all works. I started by studying the programming (mostly C and C++). I consider myself to be a spiritual minded sort of person, when I was still just a wee lad I had read the KJV bible twice over, and had started reading up on my Hindu and the Shamanism. Anyways, once I started learning the programming I though about the creation account from the book of Genesis and I though, "Well if God created everything, he would have made it all out of his thoughts and it would have all been structured and orderly. The laws of the Universe and everything would have occured to him like instructions, or code." To my way of thinking programmed reality is like saying intelligent design. Like I said tho it's what I call a general theory that would include all sort of specific theories (maybe it was all created by gods (plural), or people from the future, or ET's, or maybe I created it all myself). There are just as many ideas about what the purpose of it all is. Studying history and current events, and politics today, I would assume that it is all under the control of influences that want to keep us all ignorant and under their control, and that we, being unaware, go along with it. If that's the case then I'd have to say 'they' want to keep us ignorant and controlled because they don't want us to know who and what we are, and they don't want us to know our potential. Sort of like what that David Icke (sp?) talks about. There are all sort of other ideas.
If you could, listen to Jim's interview on C2C, he explains it all very well. So well I had to read his book, it's one of my favorite books. BL's calling my name, I must go now.
Edit for my crappy spelling:0
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Rank: Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/6/2009 Posts: 25 Points: 75 Location: Tegucigalpa
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LadyBe wrote:This programmed reality that I read about here...is this essentially saying that whatever we think or feel etc. is not something that originates with ourselves? We have been programmed to think and feel and imagine by something else? What do you suppose is the reasoning behind that? Is it for control? Why would something need to control us? I don't think for the most part that the human race is so smart (intelligent)that it needs to be controlled; there's probably a better way to word that but I think you know what I mean. I think if we were collectively so smart that if there is some kind of higher power that fears our knowing too much then perhaps it would try to control us with this programmed reality (how would they achieve that I wonder?). I guess what I am leading up to however is what makes you think we are in a programmed reality?
Yes That is also what I experience that we are swimming in an ocean of emotion. This emotions get triggered by certain events or places, or trains of thought. Then the logical mind associates and before you know it you are trapped in a matrix of trains of thought. On the control question I believe that only each being can enslave themselves, so if for some reason you are unhappy with your reality, know that only you have the power to free yourself. The events you may incur in may be programmed but there is always free will and that is how you direct the situation and feelings to your desired direction of viewing and experiencing life (reality).
We are the gamers constantly programming our experience
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Rank: Newbie Groups: Member
Joined: 3/29/2009 Posts: 9 Points: 27
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Semantics is part of the problem here. I think it is better to say that reality is virtual, rather than programmed. A programmed reality connotes a message of fatalism - at least its common usage has that meaning. For a bloody good explanation of why this reality is likely a virtual reality, read the paper, The physical world as a virtual reality, located here http://arxiv.org/pdf/0801.0337. I've been looking at this problem for about 2 yrs., and I've never read a better explanation than Whitworth's. Whitworth only takes it so far, though. For an explanation that takes you beyond the universe as we know it read, My Big Theory of Everything, by Tom Campbell, available here http://www.my-big-toe.com/catalognew/default.php. Forums are also at that site. But essentially, we are individuated consciousness having a virtual experience called the physical world. We are, as individuated consciousness, or persons with personalities and minds, merely a small part of our complete self. The whole self has been fragmented for the purpose of experiencing this virtual physical reality and to learn the lessons that will be kept for its spiritual progress. This physical reality is virtual, and it constitutes an interactive data stream creating the appearance of the physical reality. And there are many other realities, or universes. Some are physical like this one with similar laws, others are very different with very different rule sets. I think, too, that if you're familiar with many Eastern philosophies, religions, or myths, your choice on what to call them, you will recognise many of these same elements in them. These are very ancient views, which were lost in the West. The above version is merely a modern scientific analog of the same. This explanation is a bit concise, but will get you started. Note: I would add here that Tom Campbell has spent decades doing Out of Body travels, which he began with Robert Monroe. His book is, in part, a compilation of what he's learned from his OBE work. He's also a physicist, so he's taken that skill set and put it to use in interpreting his experiences while traveling in other dimensions. This may sound a little flaky to some, but I read his book and I can assure you he has a very rational and lucid mind. The book is well worth a read.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2008 Posts: 981 Points: 2,955
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In the sense that you use the word virtual, I would agree. Our perceptions of reality are virtual. However, in the common usage, I like to distinguish the common idea of a virtual reality (sensory simulation via a gaming interface) from a simulation at the level of what we think of as reality. In fact, physical reality may be manifested without resorting to intercepting sensory pathways a la The Matrix. The use of the word "programmed" is intentional. At the quantum mechanical level, our reality - space and time - are quantized. Just as they are (modeled) in any program. The fact that our reality appears to be quantized may only be because resources are finite in a computational system. If the universe were infinite as we are taught, there would be no need for quantization. A virtual experience could be analog or digital, continuous or discrete. So the best way to characterize the point of my book is really to use the word "programmed." I'm open to other ideas (and "virtual" doesn't cut it for me), but then I would have to rewrite the damn thing. And I would really hate to do that.
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Joined: 3/29/2009 Posts: 9 Points: 27
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Jim,
I don't follow your explanation, however, I do think that a digital model fits all known realities the best.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/30/2008 Posts: 435 Points: 1,132 Location: USA
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Sometimes, I've called it the "non-virtual" world. Although that word really isn't what I mean by it either. Maybe the word I have been reaching for is that "virtual-virtual" word.
But I can't say I even know that there even is a word for what we are talking about. If Jim's "programmed" reality is the nature of our being, it is so at the "core" of reality, I don't think a word would even do justice to describe it.
If, as Jim says, "the fact that our reality appears to be quantized may only be because resources are finite in a computational system," -- then what is to say there are not levels to the "code?" The "code" within the code?
Imagine, you were working for Electronic Arts ("EA") or some other giant video game publisher and you were working on this really "kick ass" RPG video game where the player controls one or several characters, and achieves victory by completing a series of quests. The characters grow in power and abilities, and characters are typically designed by the player. Players explore this game world, while solving puzzles and engaging in tactics to acheive desireable rewards within the game. After all, that is what EA does.
What if one of the non-player characters was written so well by you, that suddenly it started behaving as if it were almost self-aware? So much so, that you began to wonder what self-aware even meant. So, you might further investigate or even help it become more self-aware?
This character in the game then suddenly figures out how to create one of its own characters or in other words, a game within the game. Suddenly, you realize what a true definition of sentience might be . . . having the capability to create -- not just procreate, but really create . . . life.
Why, the programmed reality to begin with? I think Jim has it exactly right, why else would reality on the quantum level be . . . well. . . quantized?
I wish I could prove it were so, but I think we just can't. It is part of the nature of the program.
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Proof? What is proof?
The best theories I've seen, to date, that encompass all observed and learned phenomena, both physical and spiritual, describe all realities a dream. This is how many ancient wisdom systems have described reality. In the Western, scientific paradigm, we tend to describe reality as bits, or quanta. If reality is bits of data, then what is generating the data, what is calculating the data, what makes the system interactive? Who, or what, is experiencing the data?
From this vantage point I doubt that many of these questions will be answered. Linguistic choices aside, from this vantage point it is a mystery. The East has known this for thousands of years. Their gods were always seen as metaphors for the mystery. They were not so arrogant as to believe or think that the mask, or metaphor, was the god, or that they were going to deduce or infer the god by reason.
What we've come around to, in the West, is making observations that were made long ago, and we're now describing observed reality in our own cultural constructs. Some, even in the West, have gone so far as to master the inter-dimensional consciousness barriers, as I noted earlier, above. As far as I know, the one person who has mastered a scientific field, plus the inter-dimensional, is listed above. His observations coincide with a digital model of reality, only, according to him, having traveled there personally, consciousness itself fits the bits/digital model.
Again, what generates the various realities that consciousness can experience? I don't know. Neither does any person I've ever met or read know. One can describe individual beings of consciousness as subroutines within one great program, or members of a set, and then sets within sets and routines within routines; but in the end you're talking about everything being originated and consisting of only consciousness. This end point leads one to say that it appears everything, including all of reality and ourselves are parts of one great consciousness, and that everything consists of consciousness itself. And when you reach this point you're only saying what ancient wisdom traditions will tell you, namely that we and everything are a part of the ONE, the ALL, and that this oneness is consciousness experiencing itself for the purpose of refining its own nature.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/30/2008 Posts: 435 Points: 1,132 Location: USA
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Roland,
I have been checking this forum for over a year now. Slowly more and more learned thinkers like yourself have been drifting in. I loved the book that Jim Elvidge wrote, "The Universe Solved" and have loved coming to this forum and reading other people's (like you) ideas.
There is another new-comer to this forum who calls him(her)self A14I/I who has added some interesting perspectives on the "oneness." I am guessing that his(her)handle means substituting a 1 for many I/I (individuals).
I, however, am still not convinced on the 1ness thing entirely. Again, it may be semantics and my western indoctrination, but I really see it as more of a "unity" as in "the many different united." The grand "oneness" is still a little abhorent to my western rugged individualist mind. Cartesian "duality" also works well for me, although I think the Kant "dualism" is psychobabble.
If you think of a major chord in music, the first the third and the fifth, then look at the sinusoidals on an oscilliscope, they may appear to hold the same phase and period, but yet a closer look reveals that they are not exactly the same thing at all; just a beautiful harmony.
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jdlaw: I appreciate the welcoming remarks, I really do. I think that you are dead-on center when you say that it's a matter of semantics. Translations between Eastern and Western thinking are not often successful, from my limited observations. I have only found apparent success after reading and listening to a range of philosophical thinkers who have studied Eastern wisdom traditions over many years. In the East they do tend to discount individuality, or personality, or the human construct, into the great void, or the all encompassing one. I think this is tantamount to saying that god is metaphor. It is like saying that the individual, at some point of consciousness, passes through a door behind which we do not see while working from the human mind. For some reason, the Eastern thinkers have, mostly, stopped at that point. Perhaps it's as far as their meditative travels had taken them, or perhaps they felt that to describe reality beyond that point could not survive translation -- and, thereby, would likely create more problems than it would solve. I detect, too, a sense of dread in your statement (hopefully I am not imputing that; if so, then apologies). But consider that you are consciousness, that your origins are out of the source of all individuated consciousness, and consider that you have purpose here now even if it is obscured by design, and consider that when your time and purpose are complete, you will return with the experiences you've obtained here. That is a basic summary of what I've learned from the following types of sources: Near Death Experiences, Out of Body Experiences, hypnotherapy exploring existence between lives and past lives, and accounts from those who've spent decades exploring the nature of reality and existence via altered states of consciousness. And I would add to that Eastern wisdom traditions. Now, I understand that these aren't able to be examined by the Western, scientific paradigm (not most, anyway). But after seeing repeating patterns and stories, from people who don't know each other (it would have to be a centuries old and world wide conspiracy if it were a calculated hoax), who are lives apart and continents apart, I began to take them more seriously. There are problems with this type of information and there are anomalies for which an account must be made. I worked through that and it's not a short explanation, but I am very sanguine with my analysis. My analysis has been independent, but I've been please to see that those with a life-time of exploring these phenomena have agreed with me on many critical points. I just realised I might be rambling a bit far from field here. Sorry. I'll just leave it as is in case something there is worth reading; if not, then kindly ignore. =)
With respect to oneness, here's something that might be helpful in thinking about the subject. The text is a transcript of a lecture series by Alan Watts. http://pratyeka.org/philosophies-of-asia/Either start at the beginning, or jump quickly to the section which starts out with the text, "It is basic to Vedanta that brahman...".
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