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How much credit do you give... Options
Jon D
Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:28:46 AM
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How much credit do you give our general(or "mainstream") understanding of the universe and how it works, how it was created? Is it possible our modern understanding just started off on the wrong path and is still taking us in the wrong direction to this day? What are your thoughts.
jim
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:13:41 PM

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Great question, Jon D. I'll take a stab at it and hope a few others offer their opinions.

It is really hard to tell what true history is - in fact, I would say it is impossible. We only live in the moment. We can maybe learn to "relive" history through some altered consciousness techniques (many have claimed to have done so), but there is no guarantee that it is a "true" history, as opposed to a "what if."

All we really have to go in are artifacts - memories and physical artifacts, recordings of experiments, etc. I am reminded of the Blind Men and an Elephant parable. Each man has a different set of data on which to based his conclusion about what the elephant is.

So it is with our theory of the universe. It is based on artifacts - collected evidence from experiments, such as the cosmic microwave background radiation, red shifts, gravitational calculations, etc. The question is: what theories fit that set of data? It turns out that many theories do, including a digital simulation theory, or a evolving digital consciousness theory. Some of the theories are clearly wrong, since only one can be right, right? In the scientific community, this "set of possible theories" undergoes a wholesale filtering out of theories that don't fit into scientific reductionist materialist orthodoxy (aka religion), which include the digital theories I mentioned. Instead, they start with a small subset of possibilities and one becomes a popular favorite (big bang). As new data comes in, and the theory as it exists doesn't fit the data, the standard practice is to "evolve" the theory to accommodate the new data (inflationary big bang). So, effectively what is happening may be exactly what you describe - wrong path, getting one set of band-aids after another, until the theory is as unworkable as our tax code.

Somebody will then have to be the brave person and subject themselves to 20 years of ridicule as they propose something that was in the original set of valid theories, but never recognized as a possibility. From cave art to heliocentrism to cold fusion, these things happen every once in a while.

In summary, I think it is highly likely that the truth about our origins is very different than what is described in scientific orthodoxy. Even if you subscribe to the evolutionary digital model ("My Big TOE"), I think it is unlikely that our virtual reality evolved as described in the inflationary big bang theory. How many theories stand the test of time? Not too many.
Jon D
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 9:54:33 AM
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Great reply. What inspired my question are certain ancient artifacts such as the great pyramid, things we still have yet to be able to explain. Something that has been sitting in our faces since recorded modern times.

Does our way of life(with the various governing systems over the last couple millenniums) play a major factor in the way we tend to believe the universe works, the direction we go in? And do these flawed systems that run the world contribute to a flawed understanding of the universe?

Perspective probably plays a major role in the development of any intelligent life. Considering there is intelligent life out there, I wonder which route they took.
RogerV
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 7:38:07 PM
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Really like your question, John_D. Jim responded with one of his typical high calibre takes.

I'm on vacation and only have an iPad with soft keyboard so will be brief. At age 51 and nearly 2 decades of researching matters across a wide spectrum, I've concluded that nearly all mainstream knowledge that is purveyed to us is flawed on its fundamental foundations. History, science, religion, etc, etc. IOW, "everything you know is wrong" is not so bad a way to sum things up. We have some useful pragmatic knowledge that advances technology and such to a degree, but we're devoid of any actual fundamental understanding of anything - at least in the mainstream realm that is the state of affairs. I also tend to believe that a lot of so-called mainstream understanding is purposely befuddled and steered down blind alleys. Kind of a grand conspiracy by the Gnostics' Archons, if you will.

for you it was the Giza pyramids. Agree with you in that choice. One of my favorite enigmas is the platform at Balbeck Lebanon and the books by Chris Dunn. More lately has also been the Göbekli Tepe Archeological site in Turkey. But all megalithic construction any where on the globe really constitutes an enigma regarding our past history when approached in truly rationale and disspassionate manner.
Jon D
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:52:55 AM
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Great examples. Gobekli Tepe, Pumapunku, Yonaguni pyramid, etc.. it just goes on and it's easy to assume quite a lot of things were covered up before made public. As I've said before - ancient technology is just as important as alien technology, they are one and the same.

One more modern example that is a bit frustrating is Coral Castle. Edward Leedskalnin claimed to have rediscovered the secret of how the ancients did such work with stone, yet he never revealed that secret. The truth to the story is debatable, but when you consider the fact he was a man who was essentially in isolation you can consider he really may have discovered something great. One major problem with the direction our science has taken this world is it has created too many distractions, especially in the last 20 years it has been on an unprecedented level(and yes some of these distractions can be quite fun or convenient). The Nikola Tesla's of the world may be a thing of the past, and that is not a good thought. Too many distractions and regulations now.

I'd like to bring up something I've always found fascinating and in a way it just bugs me - The Voynich Manuscripts. You may or may not have heard of it, but it has baffled everyone that has ever laid eyes on it. The best in the world could never crack the language it is written in. Carbon dating places the book to around 1400AD, but I truly believe it was copied around that time from a much older piece, perhaps a surviving piece from a civilization tens of thousands of years ago.

Jim, Roger, or anyone else, are you familiar with the Voynich Manuscript? What is your opinion on it.
"Bot"-tee-licious
Posted: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:08:28 AM
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Yes indeed, Ed Leedskalnin is quite an enigma. Did he raise those stones by levitation? Here's a picture of him with some hidden clues. The small spheres (yin/yang symbols) on the cover of the book Ed is holding, one on the left and one on the right of the pyramid may symbolise the concept of the energy cycle underlying Ed's Magnetic Flywheel Generator. Interestingly, if you take the 16 letters of the book cover title (bottom right) and read from the first two letters on the bottom right and upwards, it reads "Emery OK". The Magnetic Current Researcher Matt Emery has joked with colleagues that this is Ed's prophetic validation of his work!!
Tracy
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:02:06 PM
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How much credit do I give our "mainstream" undwestanding?
I have more faith in Speilberg's ability to do a remake of a great film classic that doesn't totally suck.

Not much.
Tracy
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:07:20 PM
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With the technology today they should be making amazing films.
Lost art: How To Spin A Yarn.

But to answer the question, I find as I get older I place less and less in materialism and consider Idealism more.
Tracy
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:12:43 PM
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You might think this off topic, but I am a bit scatterbrained and goofy so:
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/intriguing-consciousness-theory-skeptics-want-evidence-6C10486211
Tracy
Posted: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:19:56 PM
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Jon D
When I read your post I started thinking about Aristotle's "first principle."
It's the big question, I should prolly think on it a few more years before posting a reply, but I just hadda.
d'oh!
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