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Some background, I've never been religious in any way, nor have I even been to a church other than for a funeral. I personally despise mainstream religion as much as I do mainstream science, and see the similarities in which they both operate. I've been sifting through old texts the past few days just seeing what I would find, one that stood out to me was the Gospel of Nazarenes, some very interesting things within this. Very old text, possibly written right around or after the life of Jesus.
It seems to teach that reincarnation is certain for all of us, however "eternal life" in the way that we do not lose our individuality upon death(life memories, etc..) is not certain, it must be achieved in a sense, and thus we are no longer reincarnated/recycled.
"in Adam, all are bound to cycles of rebirth, so in the Lord shall all be made eternal. Blessed are those who are made perfect.. for... their works do follow them."
"...every soul may be perfected by the ascent of the soul into the spirit and the descent of the spirit into the soul which comes from the highest heavens"
Could the soul and the spirit mentioned above be what we know as the conscious and subconscious? Just through my own interpretation it seems to me that their apparent goal was to mend the conscious and subconscious into one, thus creating what they referred to as "perfection".
It also seems they teach once you reach this "perfection", you no longer reincarnate here... However you take your "life's work" with you to the "enteral life". Theoretically, what could this "eternal life" be after this?
I also found the following from the Gospel of Nazarenes to ring very true, a very accurate depiction of modern religion(King James bible, etc..) -
But the time comes when darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people, and the enemies of truth and righteousness shall rule in my Name, and set up a kingdom of this world, and oppress the people, and cause the enemy to blaspheme, putting the opinions of men as my doctrines, and teaching in my Name that which I have not taught, and darkening much that I have taught by their traditions. But be of good cheer, for the time will also come when the truth they have hidden shall be manifested, and the light shall shine, and the darkness shall pass away
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FWIW, an excerpt from my book on the consideration of reincarnation in Esoteric Christianity...
"Some of the earliest followers of the teacher Jesus, known in Greek as Gnostics, shared this cosmology.” He also identified many clear references to reincarnation beliefs directly from the Bible, such as John 9:1, which reads “The disciples asked Jesus 'Teacher, whose sin caused him to be born blind? Was it his own or his parents?,'” which implies the concept of karma in addition to reincarnation. In fact, most early Christians included the idea of reincarnation in their belief system, that is, until the Council of Nicea in 325 CE. At that time, Roman emperor Constantinople and the Roman religious leadership decided to pick and chose the version of Christian teachings that suited their objectives at the time. This objective was to control the pagan masses through fear by declaring a brilliant set of ideas:
1. Each person only had a single lifetime
2. A savior died for their sins
3. In order to be saved themselves, they must declare allegiance to the Church and accept their belief system
Gnosticism went underground for a thousand years and was eventually rooted out, persecuted and destroyed by the Roman Catholic hierarchy in the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th Century."
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Very good stuff. I'm not very well versed on this subject, it's only as of recently I've began looking more into information around the time Jesus was said to have been here. It's absurd how manipulative the church became, justifying killing/wars.
What is your opinion of Jesus, what exactly made him special? Did he understand something a little more about the mechanics of creation/life and was he able to do more(could he walk on water, heal the sick, etc..)? Or was he just a very charismatic speaker who brought a different perspective into a very bland time?
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I very much enjoy mainstream religion and mainstream science. If it is perfection you are looking for, you just will not find it in this world. So, it is not so much the religion and science that we should despise. Rather, I would despise the idiots you often find in religion and science who seem to believe they have the one and only "truth." Religion and science in and of themselves are not that despicable. IMO. But I can relate to the frustration. I guess I am just a bit more tolerable of religion and science -- because despite all its faults, science and religion are still what we have to learn and follow. They may all be idiots, but their my idiots. I can live with that.
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Quote: What is your opinion of Jesus, what exactly made him special? Did he understand something a little more about the mechanics of creation/life and was he able to do more(could he walk on water, heal the sick, etc..)? Or was he just a very charismatic speaker who brought a different perspective into a very bland time?
Very hard to say, Jon. From what I've read, it appears that he did exist, but aside from the Synoptic Gospels, which seem to have been heavily and selectively edited (and strangely resembling some other ancient stories), there isn't much to corroborate those stories (other Forum users - please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that). It doesn't mean they weren't true, as history is written by the victors, but their similarity to other (eg. Sumerian) writings makes them suspect in my mind. If anything, I would lean toward the "very charismatic speaker" description, that got amplified into religious dogma later on. Quote: Religion and science in and of themselves are not that despicable. IMO. But I can relate to the frustration. Agree with jdlaw here. Spiritual teachings for the purpose of helping people to become more aware is a beautiful thing. Religious dogma for the purpose of controlling is not. Open minded science is a beautiful thing. Closed minded haters that blindly adhere to old scientific paradigms are not. IMHO
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