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stendec
Posted: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:50:54 AM

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Has anyone ever witnessed anything that could truly be called "genuine" magic? By which I mean the control of external evens at a distance, using spells or incantations.

I'm very curious because there have been so many books written on the subject, and people who claim that it is real, and works.

Have just been thinking that, if such a thing as magic exists, does it signify there are external "controllers" who are capable of intervening on our behalf, and that communication with them is possible? Just wondering what you guys think about this....
minorwork
Posted: Monday, June 2, 2008 1:02:20 PM

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Quote:
"Magic is the Highest, most Absolute, and most Divine Knowledge of Natural Philosophy, advanced in its works and wonderful operations by a right understanding of the inward and occult virtue of things; so that true Agents being applied to proper Patients, strange and admirable effects will thereby be produced. Whence magicians are profound and diligent searchers into Nature; They, because of their skill, know how to anticipate an effect, the which to the vulgar shall seem to be a miracle."
The Goetia of the Lemegeton of King Solomon.

What you mean by magic is not clear. From Aleister Crowley's; MAGICK in theory and practice:
Quote:
Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.

So also from Dr. J.G. Frazer, "The Golden Bough"
Quote:
"Wherever sympathetic magic occurs in its pure unadulterated form, it is assumed that in nature one event follows another necessarily and invariably without the intervention of any spiritual or personal agency.

Thus its fundamental conception is identical with that of modern science; underlying the whole system is a faith, implicit but real and firm, in the order and uniformity of nature."

So, stendec, is this your understanding? Or do you seek witnesses to "miracles?"

The most merciful thing in the world ... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality... That we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.� - H. P. Lovecraft
stendec
Posted: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 6:04:58 AM

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minorwork wrote:

So, stendec, is this your understanding? Or do you seek witnesses to "miracles?"


Thanks for the information, Minorwork. Perhaps I should have been more clear; it is "magick" which I originally sought witnesses to, but as you mention miracles, they would also most definitely come under the "anomaly" umbrella.

Miracles would be "divine magick" I guess; "divine" in the Programmed reality context, being that which comes from the technicians of the programming.

Magick, on the other hand, from our viewpoint, would be an attempt to impose our will (to paraphrase Crowley) on our environment, by seeking this "divine" intervention.

Have you witnessed (or practised) any such magick yourself, or indeed witnessed any miracles?
minorwork
Posted: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:41:15 PM

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Sir stendec,
Available for free online viewing. I think the whole thing is there minus some illustrations. Haven't looked at all.
http://www.pktluke.szm.sk/download/Aleister_Crowley_-_Magic_In_Theory_And_Practice.pdf

Physical miracles are slim and even a Nobel prize winner can be fooled. I saw James Randi do things that he would reveal and some he would not. He emphasizes that the more educated are the easiest to fool and all should realize that any can be fooled.

A changed consciousness is a miracle in my book. Which begs for much explanation. The reformed drunk/druggy, etc. And those who have had the Conversation and Knowledge of their Holy Guardian Angel and managed a decent return. Crowley uses much symbolism, but pages 8 thru 18 are easily understood. His reading list in preparation for the Conversation is prodigious. Uniting the vast inner unconscious worlds with the outer conscious worlds is a lifetime of difficult work.

Diligent practice of concentration is aided, free online and available for download, here: http://www.theosophical.ca/ConcentrationEW.htm
Roads of thought revealed here should suffice for awhile but more are available for mnemonic work. Ernest Wood is the gold standard of the more accessible courses.

Two explanations, though not in Crowleyspeak, of the nature of the experience.
P.W. Martin's Experiment in Depth if you can find it. A study of the works of T.S. Eliot, Arnold Toynbee, and Jung. From the chapter on Dangers and Destinations:
Quote:
Experiment in Depth by P.W. Martin
Chapter X: Dangers and Destinations. First three paragraphs.

The experiment in depth concerns everyone, but it is not for everyone to undertake. The way is dangerous. It demands of a man that he obey the injunction 'Become what thou art'; and to this end leads him to his own encounter. What he will find there, no one can know in advance. This much, though, is reasonably certain. Wholeness has to proceed against the heaviest of odds: The values, habit-patterns, attitudes, laid down by earlier conditioning in a society where the creative contact has been to a great extent lost. Individuation does not begin with a tabula rasa, but with a personality more or less malformed.

Beyond lies the deep unconscious. Here, all is at the hazard. As Jung has said, there are those who go digging for an artesian well and come instead upon a volcano. Cumulated upon this uncertainty is the harsh fact that our knowledge of the other side of consciousness is still, for the most part, in the earliest stage of hypothesis. Much of it may be wide of the mark, some completely mistaken. It is not only that the beaten way does not as yet exist. Such track as there is may be deceptive. A man takes it at his peril. In making the experiment in depth there are bound to be casualties, casualties that could not reasonably be forseen. It is well to realize that one's own name may figure among them.

But there is also the positive side. The unconscious is not fundamentally a menace, a source of fear and misgiving. It is the wellspring of life, both for the individual and for the peoples of the world. At present we are cut off from it; and worse than cut off, exposed to the utmost peril. Little as we may like it, we of the present century have no choice but to live dangerously, the threat of mass destruction over all our heads. Those who have the psychological strength and stamina to undertake the withdrawal-and-return--to live dangerously to some purpose--are the fortunate ones. Whether or not a creative minority comes into existence as a result of their efforts, they live.


And second the excellent web site by J. Denoski here: http://www.spiritualtravel.org/spiritualtravel.html



The most merciful thing in the world ... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality... That we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.� - H. P. Lovecraft
minorwork
Posted: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:20:55 PM

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Sir stendec,

On the subject of external controllers. http://www.amazon.com/MAN-MANIPULATOR-EVERETT-L-SHOSTROM/dp/B000DN6U7Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216533134&sr=1-2
Man the Manipulator was the course text of a teacher prep course I took in the early '70s. Your attempts to manipulate those around you from the earliest age mark you as an "external manipulator" of your parents, teacher, etc. Adulthood leads to the realization that you are predominantly operating from a program embedded in the brain during the formative years. From that a coupla' things can be realized about yourself. Explore. The inner worlds, the entities exist that drive your everyday life are often times revealed in the language of dreams. For help mastering the forces at work, the outstanding A Dictionary of Symbols by J.E. Cirlot is partially available thanks to Googlebooks here: http://books.google.com/books?id=-ECFg1a_6bgC&dq=A+dictionary+of+Symbols&pg=PP1&ots=rQXO5cl456&sig=oUjn_t38s4oWf01BHc7xxCihOcM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR55,M1

This is NOT new age bullshit.

I've given you the basics tools. A dream journal by the bed for dreams and a journal for what goes on the outer can by correlated and a synthesis developed that will balance from increasingly more immense and sensitive heights, the realization of self and the realization of... well,
Quote:
A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.
Bruce Lee


Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broke.
The Force shall free me.


The most merciful thing in the world ... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality... That we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.� - H. P. Lovecraft
simy
Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:12:10 AM
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Hi everyone, first time here ... and first post. It's amazing to find this forum with people that don't automatically think your a complete nut.

I can only say I've had one experience that defied any reasoning. It will seem extremely boring ... but I think it defies explanation.

For a month or so one of the two halogen lights (the left one) above my stove in the kitchen wouldn't work ... so I wacked it .. and voila .. it lit up, but then later would turn off again.
I repeated this annoying procedure for about a month until I decided enough is enough and changed the bulb. Probably just a loose wire or dodgy lamp. All was well after that.

Later the same thing happened with the lamp on the right. In frustration I ended up just removing the glass bulb and then realised how wonderful the kitchen looked with just one lamp providing the light.

One night I completely forgot that I'd removed the bulb and after a month of dealing with the one one the left and through habit thought .. 'Oh ... all I've got to do to get it going is wack it' ... like I'd done with the other light on the left.

So I wacked it ... and sure enough it LIT UP ... but only for a second, or less. Then it shut off. Then I remembered ... 'hold on .. didn't you remove this bulb' ? That's when I knew I had removed it, and almost didn't want to look and check.

So I looked up into the light holder .. and sure enough there was NO BULB, just the empty holder. It was as if I was so sure that by wacking it it would light up ... that it did.

Not the most amazing story .. but sometimes I think it would be the small, insignificant things that might reveal more of what was going on. Things that we normally wouldn't pay that much attention to.






stendec wrote:
Has anyone ever witnessed anything that could truly be called "genuine" magic? By which I mean the control of external evens at a distance, using spells or incantations.

I'm very curious because there have been so many books written on the subject, and people who claim that it is real, and works.

Have just been thinking that, if such a thing as magic exists, does it signify there are external "controllers" who are capable of intervening on our behalf, and that communication with them is possible? Just wondering what you guys think about this....
minorwork
Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:57:03 AM

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Simy,

Mate, there be much subtle manifestations from light of the dream world. It is, after traversing much shielding, also seen in the outer.

An understanding of the physical can with a little manipulation get rid of the annoyance of those pesky light bulbs. Their tendency to go off and on for no apparent reason. There is a reason. Loose connections are the bane of any electrical power system. Loose connections result in high resistance when electrical energy flows. This heats at the poor connection. Heat swells the components and breaks the connection. Heat from the normal operation of the bulb will swell components and loosen the connection. Have you ever noticed how, after some use, the bulb seems loose in the socket? There is a little springy tab at the bottom of the socket that after each heating cycle will gradually lose its springiness. When the springiness is gone there is no compliance in the connection upon heat swelling and the bulb loses its connection and goes out. This usually creates a small ball of plasma called an arc that is extremely hot. But just for an instant, hopefully. The arc is visible in higher powered units but is not present below certain energy density levels. There are three levels: cold- no visible light, glow- visible as corona, and the arc- lightning, static sparks, connection break under load arc. In other words the socket is worn out from too many heat cycles. The light you saw after banging could have been an arc from a near short where the socket connects to the house wiring. Not good. Fire hazard if this is the case. How are the sockets wired to the house system? Wire nuts? Twisted and taped? Really bad. Twisted soldered and taped. Best. Stick your nose around the socket and smell for burnt insulation.

There are fuses and breakers to prevent overload heating and shorts. Breakers come in many configurations. Ground fault breakers are held closed until a relay with a dual coil solenoid shows an imbalance thus generating a magnetic field that pulls a trigger, unlocking a spring powered contact opening mechanism and shutting off the power in that circuit. One coil is in series with the hot side and conducts the energy to the device (bulb) the other coil is wound around the first and is in series with the neutral return from the device. In normal operation the current thru both are equal and the magnetic fields cancel. Fault conditions, such as the hot side coming into contact with another electrically neutral connection like water pipes, or other earth connected metals, will cause an imbalance, with more current going out than is coming back. The resultant magnetic field pulls the trigger and opens the dircuit. These are sensitive enough and quick enough that the current passing thru your body, when the device is faulted, will be interrupted in time to keep you from receiving sufficient shock to fry your ass, I mean kill you.

There is now on the market an arc detecting breaker of which operation I am unfamiliar with, but is capable of detecting arcs from bad connections in house wiring so as to prevent fires. Many houses would still be around if these had been installed, but they are new and I'm not sure that consumers would accept breakers tripping when banging around lights. Oh well.

Maybe a bit too exhaustive, maybe too little. My best shot, anyway. There is much to explore. The physical, mental, and spiritual worlds.

The most merciful thing in the world ... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality... That we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.� - H. P. Lovecraft
jim
Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:49:31 PM

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first of all, thanks, minorwork, for the detailed explanation - i will never see a flickering bulb without thinking of your post! Angel

ah, but methinks minorwork may have missed Simy's point. and, Simy, please correct me if i am wrong. but i think you are saying that you whacked a light socket expecting to see it light up, which it did, but it did so without the bulb in there! that is truly an interesting experience. and, sometimes, i think that it is these little things that are a great indication of "something behind it all." (what it is, we are not 100% sure, but this site and forum explore many possibilities.) here is why i think that it is the little anomalies that give us the indication of a program at work...

big anomalies, like instantaneous teleportation to another place or time, can't happen to all of us, or the jig would be up. there would be no mystery that there is something behind coincidences and anomalies. but the little stuff keeps you guessing. did i really see what i think i saw? it's not quite enough to be certain, but enough to make you think, which is pretty much the point. without mysteries, life would be pretty boring. so, it seems that the mysteries are injected into our reality. how? programmatically! how else!

thanks so much for sharing! and welcome to our humble little forum.
simy
Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:43:39 AM
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Thanks for the warm welcome Jim. You are right ... I hit it .. and it lit up .. only for a brief half a second or so, even though there was no bulb. I think it was the 100% conviction I had that it would fix the problem that made it happen.

I can say in all my 38 years it's the only physical real world thing that's happened that shouldn't have. I wish I could talk about more interesting events, but this is the only one I've ever noticed.

Anyway ... I love this forum and can't wait to start reading all the other topics. Good on ya for starting it up Jim. I ordered your book from Amazon ( I'm in Sydney ) and can't wait to read it. Thank god for people with open minds.
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